KlyBall 600D/610/D13 Disk Boot Issues

[GlassTTY]

I would definitely like to see the plans and models for the case. Did you do the machining and CNC stuff yourself?

I spent all afternoon trying to understand whats going wrong with mine but alas no joy yet. It would help if I knew what I was doing I suppose, still I like a good puzzle.

As for you disk copying issues I have been following with interest on the other thread. One thing I did notice was that when I load what I thought to be a single sided hfe disk image into HxcFloppyEmulator it recognised it as a double sided disk.

[HOWARDHB]

One thing I did notice was that when I load what I thought to be a single sided hfe disk image into HxcFloppyEmulator it recognised it as a double sided disk.

This is correct, as, the HxcFloppyEmulator disk format (.hfe) IS double sided, so, when those clever folks decided to archive and preserve original OSI (single sided) disks, the image on the "second" side was read as blank, because the disk had no mag. flux on that side.

With the Greaseweasle though, it is possible to "specify" a single sided disk by "ticking" the HEAD SETS parameter, and setting it to either "0" or "1", depending on which side you want to write to, or set it to "0,1" if double sided is required.
If the HEAD SETS parameter is set to "0,1" (double sided) alternate tracks are written to alternate heads, "even" track numbers are routed to head0,
and "odd" track numbers to head1... well, that's what I observed on the Gotek (OLED) display anyway.
(not sure what your Gotek 7-segment display will display)

However, when writing an OSI BOOT disk image, be sure to set HEAD SETS parameter to "0", for an ancient single sided disk drive OR a modern 2 sided drive! (unmodified, OSI can't boot the "second" side of a disk")

Did you do the machining and CNC stuff yourself?

I designed the case assembly in 3D, and from that, each part has an associated .DXF format file, that our Laser cutting machine uses.
The CNC part bending is done, according to a drawing that I create for each part, with relevant bending instructions.

I haven't figured out why, but when I copy from the Gotek "A" to an OSI 5¼ disk, I have to copy from "A" (Gotek) to "D" (OSI floppy disk) and not the expected ”C".

If I try to copy from "A" (sel0 active, head 0) to "C” (sel1 active) it will try to copy to the 2nd head on the floppy disk( h1), which will fail on a single sided disk drive, or, it will successfully copy to the 2nd head on a double sided disk drive, but obviously that disk can’t boot! .

This still sounds very strange. The normal meanings for A, B, C, and D are:

A: Drive 0, side 0
B: Drive 1, side 0
C: Drive 0, side 1
D: Drive 1, side 1

So the first side of the second drive should be B, not C or D. What happens if you try copying to B?

Danny, I believe I've found the reason for the odd "non standard" drive select behaviour...
(NOTE: I'm using a straight 34-way cable, no twist)

See below, the schematic of the Klyball D13-V2.

Klyball_D13_V2 - SIDE SELLECT.jpg (1.41 MiB) Viewed 2302 times

Ok, so I attached my 5¼" MPI. 51 drive, with Sel0 active, and the Gotek with Sel1 active and blank image sellected (on the same straight cable)
I booted Tutorial Disk 5, and using menu item 8. I copied the disk from "A" to "B" (Gotek) without error, BUT the display shows that head 1 on the Gotek is being written to.
I can subsequently use menu item 1. DIR(ectory) to read "B" without error, and the Gotek display shows head 1 being read.
I then attempted to read the DIR on drive "D"
I can see head 0 on the Gotek is sellected but it hangs...

[GlassTTY]

Progress...

Now I feel like an idiot...

With the Index pulses very weak and track zero permanently set I thought I should check the resistors sat on the signal wires.

They are all good except that they are all still in the bag they came in. Doh!

Now that they are fitted, the drive behaves as expected stepping correctly and finding track zero etc. Davis's/Mark's floppytest program now reports a working drive. It still doesn't boot yet, but I'm happy to leave that problem for another day.

[bxdanny]

Howard,

I guess it doesn't really matter what drive letter is what, as long as it is consistent, but I think you're saying it isn't quite. I did notice that on the 610 board schematics at http://osi.marks-lab.com/boards/schematics/OSI610.pdf (sheet 7), there are three spots with indications to make a cut and add a jumper to use double-sided floppies instead of single-sided ones. There doesn't seem to be an option for one double-sided drive and one single-sided one, so there may be no way to avoid having the system hang if you try to access a non-existent drive head, And how those 610-board modifications interact with the circuitry on Klyball's board, I won't even try to guess.

[Klyball]

it is best to set the 610 to double sided drives, you can still use singles just dont access the one not there, the v1 data sep was originally for single sided drives, but the v2 works for what ever type of drive you have its been tested with almost all combinations. last time i had it set up i was using a real 8" with a 1.44 3.5

[HOWARDHB]

Now I feel like an idiot...

Don't !!!

Danny and Grant, I agree, that having a "double sided" disk option is an enhancement that, once you know how it is achieved, and how to use it, makes the machine "nicer"!

Building the 600D, after 40 years, has allowed me realise, how VERY FAR, the digital revolution has progressed... and it is a revolution, to be sure.

The degree to which the technology has "progressed" was revealed when I recently opened up a wireless ear-bud (in-ear headphone) to discover it's inner workings. Inside it, a single chip, with a silicon wafer that can't be much bigger than a couple of grains of sand, that is being addressed, from ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, and instructed to emit audio signals, in ULTRA high fidelity.
But what is most intriguing, it can listen to my "surroundungs", which includes my voice, and send that information to institutions, anywhere, without my knowledge or consent.
That tiny piece of silicon, made from the same "stuff" that the 6502 is made from, has been so "engineered", as to have an operating system run in/on it, that is literally millions of times faster, and orders of magnitude more powerful, than what was possible 50+ years ago. And, I'm fully aware, that the device on which I'm typing this, is orders of magnitude faster and more powerfull that it !!!

So, to quoute Bachman–Turner Overdrive, from 1974: "You 'ain't seen nothin' yet !!!"
...and not in a good way.


H.

[Klyball]

one thing of note , osi based there floppy interface on the original floppy standard. so the v2 is wired that way first for compatibility with old drive that have to use the motor on signal. newer drive can ignore it.

FDDedgecon.gif (4.59 KiB) Viewed 2244 times

[GlassTTY]

I've made some progress with the 610/D13 but I'm still struggling and could do with some help.

I have now been able to boot to HexDos (hexdosv4nhd.hfe) from the Gotek. I also seem to be able to load and run the variuos files that exist on the HexDos disk. However, I cannnot boot to any C1 specific OS65D images despite the fact that they boot fine on WinOSI. The majority of the disks I try to boot with, clear the screen and hang. I have yet to try the "BootThis" utility but I am wondering if I am missing something, or misunderstanding something.

Just to re-cap... I am using SYN600 ROM that mark pointed me to earlier in the thread, I'm using the standard display and have 8K+16K Ram that all tests fine. Also David's floppy test program shows the disk drive (Gotek and physical) to be fine. I have re-checked the one shot's and D13 calibration and all is good.

Any help would be very gratefully received.

[HOWARDHB]

That IS progress, you're very close now !

Hexdos resides on Track 0... and will probably boot, even if your system cant "step" properly - maybe there are issues with the step signal/timing, or the head settle delay afer each step is too long / short?.. (thinking out loud here...)
What version of FlashFloppy is installed on your Gotek? (I'm using ver 3.46a, attached for your convenience)

I'll see if I can boot that .hfe on my system, later today...

[HOWARDHB]

Ok, lets start with a known good image that boots reliably on my Gotek...

I've zipped C1-Monstermaze.hfe (attached) that occupies only 4 tracks (0 to 3)

I recall, when I first got my 610 working, "some" hfe's that I downloaded did not boot...
However, I used WinOsi to re-save all the C1 .65D images to new .hfe's, after which, all booted fine.

Try these parameter in FF.CFG

interface = shugart
host = unspecified
pin02 = auto
pin34 = auto
write-protect = no
track-change = realtime
write-drain = eot
index-suppression = yes
head-settle-ms = 15
chgrst = step

C1-MonsterMaze.HFE.zip

(115.75 KiB) Downloaded 19 times

And, if it works, try Victory Software Games...

C1-VictorySoftware.HFE.zip

(120.55 KiB) Downloaded 18 times

H.